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Permalink Reply by Cathrynn on May 18, 2008 at 2:20pm

this is just so very difficult. You are meaning from a spiritual point of view arent you? I endeavoured to join in a discussion on a U.K. BBC board on this point and found that I was completely phased out by intellectual arguments - I couldnt just say - I just 'believe' or I just 'feel' without this being drowned out by intellect....I had to give up as there was no way I could intellectualise what I perceive, intuit, behold. There were people in the discussion 'on my side' who did indeed put a good intellectual argument, but this was beyond me.

But - I am not sure if this is an answer to your question, or rather...(laughing) a comment on it....oh dear!! C x

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Permalink Reply by Graham Edwards on May 19, 2008 at 3:17am

yes i am meaning from a spiritual point of view, i guess i have to observe my own unfolding awareness??
graham

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Permalink Reply by Cathrynn on May 19, 2008 at 3:57am

how are you observing this, then? I mean - today? C x

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Permalink Reply by Graham Edwards on May 25, 2008 at 12:26pm

hum... been away for a few days ... just arrived back, so will reply soon
graham

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Permalink Reply by Cathrynn on May 26, 2008 at 8:40am

I am truly glad to see someone in here...oh dear! why are there so few people using this, Graham, it has such potential? Cathrynn

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Permalink Reply by Graham Edwards on May 27, 2008 at 3:00am

Cathrynn
sorry if this is a bit disjointed, i guess i observe my unfolding awareness partially in retrospect, that is to say i can remember "where i was" and can now acknowledge that a change has occured, and that now i am standing in a broader perspective or deeper perception, more present.
For me a subtle shift occurs when i embrace vulnerability, when i open before God ,allow,abide,surrender........
i cannot approach this with any expectancy of gain .... of getting something for myself.....however
there is a beautiful payback that touches me deeply, a gem for me, which is deeply healing and
enabling, like there is a symphony being orchestrated beyond my concious control, awsome, holy
sacred ....God
this is invairably incomplete,my living prayer
Graham

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Permalink Reply by Cathrynn on June 1, 2008 at 3:26pm

that is beautifully put, Graham. Yes, I can see that - when we embrace vulnerability, then the tough barriers fall away, that we put up to avoid being hurt and thus cut us off from God. A symphony being orchestrated beyond my conscious control...I love that sentence. A short while ago, I visited in a dream the most beautiful place and I wanted to stay. I was aware that there was beautiful music in the background, which I somehow, in the dream, connected with my husband, who died four years ago. But I couldnt reach him, or find him. There seemed to be an unspoken message that it wasnt my time yet - I had to make an enormous effort to get back, because I really wanted to stay - so I daresay for a while I have to be at earthschool still....*chuckle*..................take care...Cathrynn

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Permalink Reply by Graham Edwards on June 7, 2008 at 8:49am

Catherine
thank you for sharing this dream with me, very precious indeed, perhaps the fear of putting our vulnerability "out there" my be holding others back from sharing on the sacred commons site? I was struck by you phrasing of "having to make an enormous
effort to get back" like there is a resonance around that struggle, awsome Holy work
tread lightly.......Graham

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Permalink Reply by Cathrynn on June 15, 2008 at 5:36am

Do you also think, Graham, that often people have a specific faith, they are either a Christian, or a Buddhist, or a Catholic, and so on. I find it difficult to pin my faith down, as these are all structures, though I love the 'story' of the Christian faith and the wisdom of Buddhism. This may make people feel uncomfortable about coming in here, because they find they cant pin their faith down. I know I cant - I love gaining wisdom from the great spiritual leaders but cannot manage to follow any specific faith. This doesnt bother me, but it makes it difficult to have a dialogue with folk about this - how about you? C x

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Permalink Reply by Graham Edwards on June 15, 2008 at 4:40pm

I seem to filter what people say/believe through my faith structure/beliefs, however if i observe my own journey/evolving awareness , my ridgid constraints of Beliefs are more permiable now and less tightly held........yet i am cautious....
cautious in "my mind" about moving too far from what i believe as my faith structure/beliefs.
At the end of the day we can believe" What we like" interlectually to some degree, but when the "shit hits the fan" it's the bedrock of finding where our emotional anchors holds , how i percieve the presence of God, how i find/percieve/experiance the undergirding ,"the everlasting arms" supporting me that take belief into knowing and faith into certainty, despite....... happening to me "i know that i am loved".

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Permalink Reply by Yevgeniy on June 17, 2008 at 7:13pm

I think this might be worth a separate discussion topic:)
I don't think that Faith has anything to do with religion. I feel that it is something natural to us that we perhaps lost over time, some kind of inner knowledge that no matter perceivable or not, everything is in absolute order. Sorry for attempting to answer the question not addressed to me.

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Permalink Reply by Graham Edwards on June 18, 2008 at 4:11am

Does "religion" give us "a frame of reference" within which to place and make sence of our experiances? a common denominator , a language of reference, to where i percieve my self to be in relationship to.........?????

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